Page Fright
Hosted by authors Sydney Kain (Our Love Language is Murder: coming Feb 2027), and Liza Petrov (Pre-Query). PAGE FRIGHT follows the journey of Sydney and Liza as they find their place in the literary world. Each week they offer a unique take on the ins and outs of the publishing industry, discuss craft and the vulnerability it takes to be a writer, and they answer questions from fans. New episodes every Tuesday.
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Self-Publishing Like a Pro with Guest Erica Vipond
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Most indie authors are held back by self-doubt and overwhelming industry noise. But one successful self-publisher reveals the behind-the-scenes secrets that turned her debut into a hit—and how you can do the same.
In this episode, Erica Vipond shares her journey from medical bills and rejections to hitting shelves in major bookstores like IngramSpark and Barnes & Noble. Discover how she meticulously curates professional covers, navigates legal pitfalls, and builds genuine relationships with readers and bookstore owners—all on her terms. She unpacks the critical first steps for aspiring indie authors, from establishing a business entity to choosing the right publishing platforms, and explains why quality always trumps shortcuts like stock images or AI tools. If you've ever wondered how to make your book stand out in a crowded market, Erica’s insider advice will inspire you to take control of your publishing path.
This episode underscores that success isn’t about luck—it’s about strategic action, relentless quality, and daring to be different. Perfect for writers tired of waiting for permission, eager to grow their authorpreneurship, or anyone ready to turn a low-budget project into a thriving business.
To all aspiring indie authors: your story deserves to be told—and this episode shows you exactly how to make it happen. Whether you dream of bookstore shelves or in-person sales at events, Erica’s honest insights will help you turn passion into profit.
Find Erica Vipond on Instagram: @ericavipondauthor
Okay. Uh I'm not sure if you all will see the creepy smile that Cindy just put on.
SPEAKER_03It's exactly what I was going for, it was creepy.
SPEAKER_02Well, it reminded me of the mega hit movie that has been taking theaters by storm. Obsession. Well, I heard about it. I'm dying to see it. I'm dying to see it. I I actually saw it at a film festival last year. I absolutely loved it. Me and the few people in our group who saw it, like, not everybody saw it in our group that went. And it was, I think it was just three of us. And we came out, it was the middle of the day. We hadn't expected it to be that good. And we were all just like, my god. And made everybody else in our friend group jealous. We were like, you missed the movie of the festival. Anyway, it just came out in theaters, and it took under a million dollars to make. And it is on track to make a hundred million dollars internationally.
SPEAKER_03It's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02$55 million domestically.
SPEAKER_03And isn't that the perk of doing horror movies? Is that they're cheaper to make and they usually bring in a ton of money. A lot of starting in the directors do that.
SPEAKER_02There is a big chance to bring in a lot of money. And um, yeah, it's a small Canadian team. And I'll say this people talk about the shoestring budget, but like the writing, definitely not shoestring. Like it takes a try-to-true concept of love potions, and it goes hard on what a love potion actually means, how you can make it really scary, and it's been a long time since I've been in a theater where, you know, I feel people crinking like actually hear them saying things from each other, oh my god. Like, it's it's not like a movie where you're constantly jumping from jump scares. It's more like you're going, I can't believe I just saw that. Oh my god. It's fantastic. I was so excited.
SPEAKER_03Now every time I hear of a horror movie or a horror book or anything horror-related doing well, I'm like, yes, yes, now is the time for horror.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's actually it's been a good, great couple years for horror movies and thus, you know, for screenplays. And uh yeah, like if you are a writer, if if you are interested in how to craft plots that dig deep into concepts, like go see it. You're you're gonna you're gonna be able to learn something from the script. I thought it was really smart, it's really clever. It did so much, so little.
SPEAKER_03And it's really inspiring that it started off so small, so low budget, and look at how successful it is. Which is also something that can happen for independently published authors. Start off very small with a low budget, and then you do all the right things with marketing, luck, and you put it out there, and it can become a huge hit. And that brings us to today's main episode. Yes, yes, where we have a special guest who has come on to talk about what it takes to independently publish the marketing, the inside scoop, how to get into bookstores, how to make connections. And so our special guest is named Erica Vipond. She is the author of slow burn romantic thrillers, including Starling Darling, and her latest espionage thriller, One Night in Warsaw. She has a bachelor's in English and has a love for studying languages. She is currently hard at work on her debut romanticy that is account of Monte Cristo reimagining about sisterhood, betrayal, and revenge. When she's not writing, you can find her ice skating, binging K dramas, and spending time in her garden. And let me just say, Erica is such a kind person, so business-minded. We mentioned this last week that she keeps me and Lisa in line and makes sure that we are doing the marketing side of things instead of just focusing on the art of it. And so we are so lucky to have her today. So without further ado, let's welcome Erica.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Erica. Hi. Hello. Thank you for watching. Welcome to Paige Wright.
SPEAKER_00I'm so delighted to be here with you guys. We are now like internet official. We are people now know we we know each other.
SPEAKER_03Well, we introduced you on last week's episode as our third. You're in our writers' group, and now people finally get to see your face and meet you, a lovely person, and they are so lucky to learn from you because you are the businesswoman of the group.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. I mean, you've made a different you've had such success in self-publishing so far. You started like it was two years ago when Starling Darling came out. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Starling Darling officially was published in 2024. It was November 11th, 2024, and I only remember that because it was the Texas Book Festival weekend. Yes. I was like now in my long-term memory. Yeah, but obviously, as you guys know, the book was had many iterations, and there were many years where it was it was living before it came out to the world. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02As as all of our projects have been.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, so I definitely want to get to things like the book festival, like that. You mentioning it just like immediately sent me five questions down my list. But I do want to start in the best place, the beginning, and ask you what made you decide to do self-publishing. It's such an arduous decision for so many people. I'm curious, like, what was behind that decision for you? And uh can share with our listeners kind of what's what's in store for them and help them navigate that.
SPEAKER_00Sure as well. Yeah, that's that's a great question because it's it's good to go back to the beginning. So for me, I will say I'll break it up your question up into two parts for myself, which are the short answer is I wanted to self-publish because I'd taken the manuscript of Starling Darling as far as I felt like I could take it. I felt like I'd said everything I needed to say about Lucia's journey, who's the main female protagonist of Starling Darling. I had said everything I'd needed to say about her journey of grief and death and losing her mother. And the longer answer is that I was diagnosed with a chronic illness in 2020. And I, in that journey of my diagnosis, all the tests, all the lab work, everything, I think I just had a moment of like, if I were to die tomorrow, as morbid as that sounds, what do I lament and regret that I haven't done the most? And this little voice just whispered to me, which was to be an author. And I reached the point within myself where I was tired of waiting for someone to give me permission to be an author. And so I did everything I could to work towards that path. But the I would say catalyst was sort of twofold of I have this book. I feel like it's ready to be shared with the world. It's I'm ready to hear what strangers will say about this piece of work specifically. And I myself felt ready to kind of take that leap of faith and see where it would, it would, it would lead.
SPEAKER_03Wow, that is so beautiful. I love what you said about that you were not gonna wait for permission to become an author because that's something that we talk about all the time is that we don't need someone to tell us that we are an author or that you're good enough or that your work matters. So when you said that, did you mean from friends and family, from yourself, like agents, publishers? What do you mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, both, all, all of the above. Um, you know, for me, I had been querying Starling Darling for two years, a year and a half. And at that point, keep in mind it was 2020, 2021 to 2022. There's pandemic, traditional publishing business models are kind of changing, how they're finding new authors is changing. It was a very like fluid, it felt like circumstance of I'm queering, I'm getting rejections. You know how it is when you are queering, you're hearing a lot of thanks so much. It's not a good fit. And you want to know why is it not a good fit? Because this story for me personally, Starling Darling had lived inside of me for years and years, and you could argue decades, right? This like story, you're like, I have to tell the story. And for me, Starling Darling was the story that I knew I could not, I could not publish or write any other book until I, until I got this one out. I I don't know how to explain it other than if no one is going to agree with my assess personal decision and assessment that this is a great story, it's an important story. I think uh estranged mother and daughter relationships can be very universal. And I felt like it was time and despite the 100 and I think 19 rejections, I I wanted to prove to myself or to any sort of abstract stranger who had said, I don't think this is ready, or I don't think this is a good fit. I wanted to say, Well, it's I'm ready, and I think it's a good fit. And it's been very successful, hasn't it? I think it has been, you know, keep keeping in mind that everything is cumulative, right? So I've had these little baby steps since publishing it officially and then coming out with my second book. It feels like one sort of leads into the other. It doesn't exist, you know, siloed.
SPEAKER_03And do you feel like a real author?
SPEAKER_00Do I feel like a real author? I think that what I'm most excited to say in this podcast, in this moment, with you you two, my dear friends, which is I feel like a real author when we are in our critique group.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's so nice.
SPEAKER_00I feel I feel like I take myself seriously because I have two wonderful, clever, smart women that I talk to all the time who in these very structured meetings, we are being very intentional with our feedback. There's a lot of purpose to it, and it helps me take myself seriously because you guys take me seriously. You know? It's really nice. I didn't know this was gonna be such a sentimental episode. Yeah. I'm a very sentimental person, so get ready.
SPEAKER_02I'm gonna push us along into a few more questions about self-publishing, because you know I'm really curious. Um so what like I want to get real basic and very practical for a second. What are some basic first steps that every author should take if they plan to self-publish? This is this is a question I wrote down ahead of time to specifically ask you our code because I didn't want to finish this interview without having some good practical steps for people out there who are thinking about self-publishing because you did it, you did it right. You did it so elegantly with fantastic branding. And uh I I think that your expertise will serve a lot of people well. So anyway, help them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, help us, help us. Yeah, help us up. The first step is the first step, I I would say is really for me harkens back to my upbringing. And what I mean by that is you have to decide, and by you in the universal sense, right? A writer who's like, I want to self-publish, I want to get my book out there, what do I do? Well, the first start is to recognize there are a lot of voices out there in the world, there's a lot of noise and a lot of resources, which can get very overwhelming. And I personally get very overwhelmed when there's too much information about something. I really have to break it down and sort of put it into digestible chunks. So for me, the first step I would say as advice to give to any future books by authors seeking to publish, I would say really look at the business side, the business aspect of what it means to be a self-published author. Because essentially you are an entrepreneur. You are a small business owner the minute you publish your book. The minute you earn any sort of income on anything that you create artistically or whatever it might be, really goes back to a sort of business acumen that doesn't feel natural at first, but is really essential. So for me, what I did was I established an LLC. That allows me to have a sort of umbrella legally of separation of my personal finances and anything I publish under this LLC, which for me I kept very broad on purpose. I it's like publishing. So any sort of publishing-related material. So really looking at local and state laws of do you want to do a DBA? Do you want to do an LLC? What is that gonna be called? Having a something like a registered agent to sort of maintain that privacy, which I feel like is really, really important, especially in this age of technology and access to information. You know, I think about these things a lot because I want my privacy respected. And it's just this intention of when you are doing something that's very business side heavy, even for something artistically, what I believe I was doing and still continue to do is I'm investing in my dreams, right? That's really what it comes down to. So anyone who's got an interest in self-publishing, I would say really scale it back and like what are the things you need to implement before you even publish? Before you even get to the copy editor looking at it, are you having a cover designer like really scaling it back and saying, is this an LLC? What are the laws in my state? How am I gonna file taxes? I have to file taxes quarterly with my LLC. You know, there's all these different things to think about. And then when we start like sidling into the creative aspect of what does what are the basic steps to self-publish, really look at the applications in which you are going to publish on. So for me, I really I actually wrote this in my recent newsletter, Bite-sized uh craft, which is I really hate subscription-based models. So what I did was actually invested in Scribner, which works really well with my brain and my sort of natural way of structuring things. And that allows me to just write, because I can put thoughts into buckets, ideas, dialogue scenes, etc. And having that, in addition to Atticus, which I paid a sort of lifetime fee for both, I'm not paying this sort of monthly fee. And I think that that is something that can add up really easily with self-publishing authors, which are, well, this sounds good, so let me just sign up for this. Well, this sounds great, let me do this. You can take yourself a lot of different directions that have nothing to do with the writing. So it's very important that the decisions made early on are really thought through with purpose so that when you do just get to the writing and you are ready to like publish, it feels more achievable.
SPEAKER_02And just a little follow-up to go into another aspect of it, like what platforms are best to try to get your book on? Like the only thing I know being a complete noob at this is just Amazon. Like get sell-publish on Amazon. How did you go about researching where to sell your book? Because I know we're gonna talk about how you got yourself into brick and mortars and different events, but for electronic sales, is Amazon the only option? And are there other options that you've seen and and what's the what's the price breakdown for that? Is it a good deal? Is is the deal getting worse and worse as as time goes on?
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean, we all know that Amazon has really monopolized the market. So when you consider what the most feasible options are that are accessible cost-wise to any new author, Amazon is kind of the default now, right? That's kind of where publishing as an indie author, as a self-published author, is really going in the direction of I would say where I began what were several different platforms, actually. So publishing through Barnes Noble Press, which is an option that allows me to obtain royalties for any books purchased through Barnes Noble through like the link specifically that is on my website. And just to clarify, that's an online self-publishing option. It is Barnes and Noble Press specifically, which allows you to like upload your manuscript when it's like ready and final. I've also ordered proof copies to sort of see how my mostly finished manuscript is gonna look in book form and paperback form. Amazon paperback and ebook is, of course, as you were mentioning, the sort of well-known common accessible option for a lot of people. Selling via your website if you have one, which I am all for. I think that when we consider Instagram and meta and the sort of ways that they're changing their algorithms and who views your page and how people find you and discover you, the discoverability can aspect can be kind of tough. So I think having your own website where people can sign up for your newsletter, people can buy books from you directly, which of course allow you as an author, or me specifically in this scenario, a higher rate of commission on the books that you know I've spent so much money working to publish. So I think that there's a variety of platforms. I think it's really about what are you, what is your goal? My goal was to make my books as easy to find and discover as possible. Ingram Spark is also one that you're gonna hear thrown around a lot. Ingram Spark is a huge publishing conglomerate, I would say. And what they do for indie authors specifically is I on the back end can upload my manuscript. I have to upload my cover, it has to be like go through this process within their company of like a few days. They just make sure everything is like good and not inappropriate, you know, things people will self-publish sometimes. So they they they have those things reviewed. But once you are in Ingram Spark, that is where any bookstore across the country can stock your book, or at least like Ripped Bodice, which is based in LA and in New York specifically. They have my book um both Sterling Darling and One Night in Warsaw on their website as available to purchase. I don't know if my my books with them specifically is in store, but it is through them because of Ingram Spark. That is so cool.
SPEAKER_03Is that how you get your personal copies too? When you have, I've always been confused how authors do this when they have their own books that they will sell from their website that are signed, let's say. Are you buying those from Ingram Spark or how and then how do you get those to readers once they order it?
SPEAKER_00Sure. Okay, so that's sort of twofold. So when it comes to readers who can purchase a book from me, if they're doing it through my website, then I already it's because I've controlled the stock. So like you can see above me what books I have sort of in inventory. There's like a few more around. And that is something that I then have to take care of if they're purchasing from me directly on the website. If they are purchasing like in and at an event, then yes, I have to order that ahead of time. Keeping in mind that Ingram Spark is sometimes known for quality adjustments or challenges with printing. So, what I mean by that is I've had many covers printed and the cover is off by a margin of half an inch, and then it looks bad and it doesn't, it's not how it's supposed to look. So then I have to sort of turn around and go to their customer service and say, excuse me, here's some photos. This isn't how the cover's supposed to look. And I have an event. And they are, I will give Ingram Spark some credit, which is anytime I've done that, they've they've really followed through on recourse to help me have books in time for say a specific event. Like, example, this past weekend, I had had the Greater Austin Book Fest at the Austin Public Library, and I literally had like 10 books where the spine was printed wrong and the cover was bleeding over into the spine. You're kidding. And I was so worried, am I going to get new copies, like good, like normal copies as they should look and appear in time? And they luckily expedited it on their end. And um, you know, there is some recourse, but I would say that is sort of the whole philosophy of being self published. You must be prepared for the worst thing to happen. And how do you do that?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And there's so much less of a of a margin. It's not like if you're being represented where someone else will deal with this for you. Yeah. It's it's ever it's you and your money. And and your short amount of time that you have to fix this. I want to transition real quick because you mentioned all these cover woes to a question that I know a lot of people are wondering about, which is what are your recommendations on making a good cover? Because self-publishing, one of the biggest things it's known for, I'll just say it, is terrible covers.
SPEAKER_03Why don't you reach behind you and show us your covers? Because they are beautiful.
SPEAKER_02Show off your covers. They are amazing. And I will say this, as as Erica does this, she has been complimented on her covers. There are like I I think that there are plenty of readers who have picked them off of bookshelves, not even thinking that it was self-published, thinking that it was.
SPEAKER_00That was very important to me and top of mind when I was when I was thinking about this.
SPEAKER_02And I think that um, I don't know, for a lot of listeners, this the your your way of thinking about it and approaching it uh can be helpful to them, especially if they're worried about like, well, I just don't have access to all of the professional, amazing things that a traditionally published author would be. And I'm scared that my cover that I fall in love with is just it's it's not going to have that feeling of of professionalism, and people are going to turn away and not buy my book because of that. So and I know the struggle because it's just like you try and try, and it's just like if you're not a designer, then it's sure it's really hard. So how did you go about it?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, what I will say is that I'm I was a wedding and commercial photographer for 15 years officially, and so I'm a very visually oriented person, and I consume a lot of visual media because I'm constantly just like looking and studying, and so cover for me, sort of invisible to anyone else, was just absolutely high priority. And to your point about covers and the sort of reputation sometimes that self-published books have, unfortunately, you know, I really wanted when someone looked at the book, I wanted them to feel what I felt about the story, at least the sort of romanticized aspect of some of the European landscape and the scenery. I wanted the covers to really speak for themselves because I think my adage now is quality should supersede impatience.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00Great lesson. So, so for me, I really wanted to take my time with sort of curating this cover, both for the aesthetic purposes and for my own personal satisfaction. And I really do understand about the cost and what that means accessibility-wise to publish a book when you are self-publishing and paying for covers and paying for these platforms and apps and all the things in preparation for that. So I will say I was the year that I was publishing Starling Darling, I was paying off medical bills because of my illness and because of my medical treatment. And so for me, I absolutely understand that argument of like, what if I just don't have money? And I understand that there's a whole conversation that's happening online about AI usage and well, it's just easier and whatever, but it was really important for me to use a real person artist, you know? And it still, of course, is it's non-negotiable. I happen to have a connection with an artist who's based in San Diego, and she and I connected about this book cover, and I think she saw my vision and understood what I was trying to convey, which is I want people to pick up this book and to your point, not even be able to tell if it's been self-published or not. I want it to just be the best thing that it could be, and that did mean taking a little bit longer to publish it so I could pay an artist. So I could, so I could afford to have someone do something of an incredible quality.
SPEAKER_03That's the cool thing about independently publishing now is that a lot of the barriers that were there before aren't there. Like you can there are so many book cover designers on TikTok, on Instagram, online. There's marketing tools, there's editors and copy editors.
SPEAKER_00I also have an I have an addendum to add to this conversation about book covers, which I feel like I really had to grapple with in terms of just making sure everything legal-wise, because I it's like always top of mind, making sure it's it's correct. There are stock images that you can get on i stock, right? Or iPhoto or whatever. And you're like, well, it's a stock image. I can use that. But actually, the terms of that stock image can absolutely change. Keeping that in mind for potential prospective legal issues when you design your own cover or you say, Hey, I'm just gonna use this stock image because I can't afford to pay $300, $500, $800 for a book cover for someone to paint it. I understand, but there's there's a reason for myself that I chose this path, which is to pay an artist.
SPEAKER_03Which that's a great point because I did not realize that one time when I used an image, and I realized that you had to continue paying to continue getting the rights. So it was gonna be a lifetime of paying for this one image. Yeah. I mean, they do not tell you these things. For sure.
SPEAKER_00For sure. It always goes back to the sort of legal terms of anything. What am I doing, and what do I actually have the legal ability and permission to do that minimizes my liability as a self-published author?
SPEAKER_02So along with that, it wasn't just the fact that you got a professional artist because she did an amazing job. Yeah. It was also you can tell if something's published or self-published by poor border work, poor like spacing of lettering. And did you have any help with that? Would you recommend people kind of seek any sort of service out? Or did you do that completely on your own? Are you just that talented?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no, no. I can't even tell you how many times I've repeated the or as or had some sort of typo because I've read, you know, that book at that time, Starling Darling. I'd read it no less than not being hyperbolic 300 times. I felt like if I looked at it one more time, I was just gonna throw it across the room. I just Oh, I know that feeling. Yeah, I think it it's important to get outside eyes. And I think for me specifically, I had resources, people resources. So before our critique group, you know, formed and before I met you guys, even though I feel like I've known you forever, I knew that I needed an outside person. And I had actually previously founded a magazine and I'd published three issues of this magazine. And I ended up continuing to work with the copy editor, Miranda, on Starling Darling and One Night in Warsaw. So having someone that I was paying, even though it took a little bit longer, right, to like publish because I needed to, I wanted to pay someone to look at this so I didn't have to anymore because I just couldn't. Yeah. And having professionals look at your work allows readers to not be taken out of the experience of reading the work. Reading the story that you've spent years just thinking about and working on and revising and getting it to the best it can be. So I think that having a line editor or a copy editor or whomever you can afford to utilize to look over your work is like essential. And they have a lot of these on Readsy too. So absolutely. Yeah, that's not where I located Miranda, but that is most especially a resource. So let's transition into uh what I like to call the unexpected. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Are there any unexpected aspects of self-publishing? Like once you got into it, unexpected upsides, unexpected downsides, just spill the tea. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean it goes back to basically being a business owner, filing quarterly taxes, learning about what the hell is a franchise tax, at least in Texas. I can only speak to things Texas, right? Which are every May 15th, I have to like file something that's public with the state, you know. So, so there's all these sort of less fun, not writing taxes. This is the least fun side of anything. Also, and I and I and this is related to your question. What are the upsides and the downsides? The downside, because I want to start off with those first, but the downside is you are really teaching yourself a lot, unless, again, you have the financial leverage in order to hire a like a financial coach or an ac a tax accountant in order to sort of guide you through the local, like state tax laws. You know, that would be a dream, but I did I don't have that currently and have not had that as a resource. So for me, it's just reading a lot, researching a lot. So that's kind of the downside is you're spending a lot of energy and time on something that has nothing to do with writing. But for me, I'm very data-driven and I'm very curious and I like to know things. I like to be a little nosy. So I think that that is taken me far in the sense that I haven't felt like I've had many surprises, except until two weeks ago I learned about something that's called a retail resale tax exemption, which is I have been purchasing books through Ingram Spark and selling them at in-person events, right? And I am paying tax on any profit that I retain, right? But I've been paying double tax. I've been paying taxes quarterly, and I have been paying taxes on the items that I am ordering, and then paying taxes on the things that I've gotten profit from. So turns out there's an exemption in Texas where and I've just filed it like last weekend, which are that exempts me from tax when I order my books through Ingram Sparks.
SPEAKER_03Wow. See, these are the kinds of things, and and this is why you keep us in line, because I'm I'm trying to tell myself not to go cross-eyed and to pay attention to what you're saying. But as you're talking, I'm like, I'm like, oh, let's let's get back to the books. I think like taxes are the most boring. I'm I worry about myself. Like, I think I'm gonna end up in jail because you won't be in jail, but you will be fined, ugly. I plead the I don't know. I did not do this on purpose. Please. Exactly. Like, I don't know. You expect me to know.
SPEAKER_00I don't, I know. I know, I don't and I mentioned it sort of briefly. I touched on it briefly earlier, but I actually grew up in a family where my grandmother from Thailand had immigrated to the US in the 70s and immediately started a hair salon business. So I was like, I literally grew up in a hair salon. I I grew up sweeping hair, I grew up like helping her, answering the phones, literally going through the till of cash, just like really helping her bookkeep. And so that was early exposure that I absolutely acknowledge the privilege of like who ordinarily does that? Who normally gets that kind of insight into that experience being an entrepreneur? And so I think for me it feels a little bit more natural than it might for other people. And I I really just to not dissuade anyone, like I am saying the hardest things first, which I wanted to do on purpose. The upside is the uh euphoria of seeing your book in your hands and seeing it. Show us one night in Warsaw too. I wrote this gorgeous. I'm hold on one second. I'm gonna have to all right. So this is one night in Warsaw. Gorgeous. Yeah, yes, and Laura also painted this. Yeah. So she painted both. So there's fantastic. There is pride in seeing my book or books in a store, in going to events and talking with people about this thing. Cause it's like, here's the finite, like the final product, right? That allows that invites a reader into the experience that I was hoping to share with them.
SPEAKER_03Little pieces of your heart everywhere. Everywhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Which is, I feel like a whole other conversation about letting go once you've published. Yes. Go for it. Well, okay. So these two books are nothing alike. They're standalones. This one is about a strange mother-daughter relationship that's sort of a European jaunt that involves a robbery. That's Starling Darling. She's a gesturing too. And One Night in Warsaw, which is a romantic thriller espionage story that goes across the countryside of France, Poland, and London. So what I have experienced with both books is that Starling Darling felt like I had said everything I needed to say, and that was it. I didn't want to look at it anymore. I felt like it was ready. One night in Warsaw was sort of me on the precipice of I feel like I could say more, but I think that I just am choosing to be done. And what's interesting is that with both books, I've had separate responses from readers, which are they really love it, but like they're very different. And I think some readers have these expectations that they bring into reading my books, which are, oh, this is not quite the same thing as this. And I think you have to let go as an author of you are no longer in the experience with the reader, right? Yeah. And I'm less sensitive now. I think that having our, and I mean this in the best way, having our critique group, our writer's group, certainly hustled that, hustled me to the place of where I am at peace with what I have put out, because there will always be something that people think that you should be doing with your story. But at the end of the day, it's your story. And I felt like with each of these books, I was like, I I've said everything I need to say. And some readers, sometimes that resonates with them and sometimes it doesn't. And I think that whether you choose to look at Goodreads or reviews on any platform, it's important to have that boundary with yourself of like people are always going to say something, and I cannot, there's nothing I can do about it.
SPEAKER_03This is a perfect thing for you to discuss coming off of my Lisa's talk last week. Remember, we talked about changing genres. So yeah, do you feel I mean you've changed the genres. I was just confused.
SPEAKER_02I'm so happy you brought it up.
SPEAKER_03Yes, because you went from this. Well, I'm terrible with naming genres. Okay, so what are you romantic thriller? But they're very different. Like no, it's women's fiction. You have women's fiction. And now you have another type of women's fiction with roughly easy things.
SPEAKER_00And they don't always make themselves known online, but in person, I've had I've had men come up to me and tell me about how much they enjoyed my books. Just to just to add a little a little bit of an expensive bookster for everybody.
SPEAKER_03So before we got sidetracked, how are you changing genres and keeping your fans engaged?
SPEAKER_00That is a really great question, Sydney. And we're gonna find the fuck out. I think my goal is to demonstrate that my writing has evolved in a really great way. Like I am the most proud I've ever been of my writing work, as I am with my romantic. And what the story does for me is it allows me to go a little deeper, a little darker where my imagination sort of lives. Whereas like Starling Darling was the story I needed to write first before I could write anything else. One night in Warsaw was the was the thing I wanted to say about loneliness and family. And the romanticy changing genres is is definitely a little bit of a risk, right? People could be like, this is not what I quite wanted. But I think if readers like my writing, they're still going to find the things that they like and enjoy about my style of writing in the romanticy. And I think that that is very important that I haven't strayed so far in that readers won't be able to find me in the book or books, since it is a trilogy, because apparently I like to torture myself.
SPEAKER_02And this is a really beautiful point because if you if you are working in traditional publishing, you're part of a team. And everybody is kind of riding on the and depending on the product that you are generating as the writer. So there's a lot of pressure on you to play it safe with readers and to stay the course in whatever genre you're finding success in. I don't know, d bringing it back to your grandmother and working in bookkeeping for her and running a small business. You are running a small business, you are taking on the risk yourself, and it's kind of freeing. But like there there's something frightening about, you know, possibly testing your readers in that way and not seeing sales as you would like them to. But, you know, with risk comes reward. And I think I think it's great to be able to explore that flexibility without thinking about dragging down everybody else that is on the team with you in traditional publishing. You're you're free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, it's interesting. I I to use your words of playing it safe. I would not at the time when I was publishing Starling Darling, and again last year when I published One Night in Warsaw, I don't know that I felt like I was playing it safe, but no, no, no, no, you weren't playing it safe. That's what I was saying. I'm saying there's a lot of pressure to play it safe.
SPEAKER_01There is a lot of publicity.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think there's still a I mean, it depends on where you uh get your information from, not you, the universal you. I felt like a little bit I was trying to play it safe with, say, Starling Darling, which is I want to tell a story that really resonates. And I and I think I did a really good job with that, but romanticy is a wholly different genre with a readership, a built-in readership that is they have wholly different expectations. And I want to always write a book for myself, but I am publishing for readers, and so I think it's really important to acknowledge that component of there are certain genre expectations in romanticy, and I can choose to break them. I can absolutely do whatever I want, right? Like I am not necessarily beholden, but I I want the series to do well, and I want people to like trust me enough to go on this journey with me of pivoting and going into something that's maybe a little darker and kind of subverting the genre a little bit. So that is something I'm looking forward to, but time will tell.
SPEAKER_03This is my goal. I feel like Taylor Swift really set the stage.
SPEAKER_00Okay, I'm being serious.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm she's got a Taylor Swift book back here, so she set the stage to have fans follow her from genre to genre, from country to pop to folk. And so I think that we as authors should take a note and learn from that and just follow our heart because we are gonna evolve. We're we're humans, we're getting older, we're getting smarter, we're getting more scarred as we go, and we're gonna have different perspectives on things. And so we just need to say, okay, readers, I want you to be happy, but also I have to be happy and fulfilled in this, and I have to write the story that's in my heart, and I hope that you'll follow me along with it and find it entertaining or or or deep or love it or whatever you get out of it.
SPEAKER_00Well, and and I think for me also considering the books that I have myself have been very drawn to, I like when there's something different that maybe an author put out and then it's sort of a different genre or a different style. Uh, I think that it's important to recognize for myself that the right readers will find me and the right readers will see what it is I'm trying to say and what I'm trying to share. And I I am not trying to please the masses. And I think that that is a very important thing for me to remember when I'm writing, when I'm publishing, that you you can't put yourself in a box and keep writing the same thing. That said, I will like I've already outlined like the my next four book projects. And wow, one of them, one of them, aside from the trilogy, is a romantic thriller. And so I I think that it's for me very important of like, I want to have the freedom to go follow where my interests go. That's great. Yeah. We need to take a note from you.
SPEAKER_02I do have one more question before we wrap up for the day. Um, and this is uh kind of bringing us back to earth, away from everything that we want to write and put into our work. Just one more kind of uh brass tacks question for you. So you mentioned that a lot of your sales come from in-person interactions at different book events. This is like book festivals, but also relationships that you've made with brick and mortar locations. I didn't want to end this interview without asking you how you actually get into physical locations, work with other people in order to get your book either on a shelf or on a display table. What would you advise people do? Um, or what's what are the things that they need to know in order to start that journey for themselves?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, which I mean, I think this kind of reconnects with the conversation point earlier about the book cover and what kind of quality of thing are you putting out there? Because that's gonna be a bit deterministic of is a business owner who owns a bookstore going to take a chance on you? And is someone who has say $20 in their pocket sees you at a book event, are they gonna spend that money on your book and why? So are you saying that books are actually judged by their cover? I I think I think if you really if we really think about it, we have one brief, like fleeting opportunity to invite a reader into our world and a cover. And again, as someone who is very visually oriented, a cover is just the first part of it. It's the first piece of it, and you want them to like the thing inside the cover, right? In in the book. But it it is a bit like I just think that that's just reality, and I think that that's honest. And I don't think that's bad, but I think that it goes back to like your cover really has to represent what the book is about. And so kind of circling back to the point of how does one get into bookstores, for me, really being brave and kind of cold emailing sometimes has worked, and how it's worked is that I am always acknowledging that I am persuading, right? I am I can't just dump what the story's about. I have to hook. And it's the thing that you guys have talked about recently, and especially to quote, you know, Lisa, it's the goal is to promote sellability, not individuality. You have to really tell, like, it show to someone, especially a bookstore owner, is why? Why should they stock your book? Why should they take a chance and say, well, I guess of all the books, like maybe this cover is that fits in with something that's sort of aesthetic to the store. You know, I visit every bookstore before I even think about contacting them. So that there's nothing false about it. I'm not saying I really loved your bookstore, but actually I found it cramped and I noticed you didn't have any diverse authors. Like I have to really think about that. So I want it to come from a place of sincerity, um, while my aim is to connect with a potential opportunity, which is to be stocked into a bookstore.
SPEAKER_02And what about book events? Just real quick. Just to tell you, because you you got yourself into the Texas Book Festival. That's what that's what I think.
SPEAKER_00I did, yeah. What it was a bucket list. And that thing I would say. It was really great. Yeah, that was um through the Writers League of Texas, which is a nonprofit based locally that I know you guys have mentioned a few times, especially talking about the upcoming conference, which you know we met at. And I would say really connecting with local community-based, creative or writer-based organizations, it's really just gonna go far because you can't know what you don't know. So it's important to connect with people who might know more than you. The organization has staff, has directors, they know they they they are connected to the thing.
SPEAKER_03So writing is a solitary act, but being an author is not. It requires connections.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it absolutely does, and it asks and it requires kindness, curiosity, and professionalism. You know, you can't expect that everyone's gonna love your book, and that shouldn't be the goal. The goal should be where where is my reader? They're out there somewhere. I've got to find them. How do you find them? By putting yourself out there. What a beautiful moral to end on. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Thank you so much for coming along.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for letting me yap and chat, and so nice to see you guys.
SPEAKER_03And you get to be a part of our last tradition of the episode where Lisa has a question for us. Yes, I do have a question.
SPEAKER_02This is for all of the newbie writers, the tender hearts, the perfectionists. And it is is there a right time to share your writing with others? For the first time. For the first time.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah, there is, there is a right time. What do you think? There is a right time?
SPEAKER_01Wait, no. There's so much to say.
SPEAKER_03There's a right time, but I'm not I'm not gonna tell you what it is.
SPEAKER_01What? Why?
SPEAKER_03I don't know. Let's let's let Erica, do you, do you think there's a right time?
SPEAKER_01I have I yeah, yes, there's a right time.
SPEAKER_03But we will not tell you until next week.
SPEAKER_02Until I'll be sitting on the edge of my seat. We're we're not gonna say shit. No, we're not gonna say anything until next time on PageFright. We will see you then. Uh, like and subscribe. Thank you. Thanks. Bye.
SPEAKER_03You just listened to Page Fright. Don't forget to like and subscribe and write to us at PageFrightcontact at gmail.com.
