Page Fright
Hosted by authors Sydney Kain (Our Love Language is Murder: coming Feb 2027), and Liza Petrov (Pre-Query). PAGE FRIGHT follows the journey of Sydney and Liza as they find their place in the literary world. Each week they offer a unique take on the ins and outs of the publishing industry, discuss craft and the vulnerability it takes to be a writer, and they answer questions from fans. New episodes every Tuesday.
Page Fright
Why Does My Writing Feel...Off?
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Most writers grapple with the relentless cycle of loving and hating their own work — but what if that inner critic is actually a form of "writing dysmorphia"?
In this episode, Sydney and Liza explore why writers often see their manuscripts as ugly ducklings, only to realize they were swans all along. Discover practical strategies to build confidence, embrace imperfection, and trust your storytelling instincts. They delve into how emotional reactions, perfectionism, and self-criticism can impact your creative process, and how to reframe these feelings as growth. Learn to silence the inner critic and shift from self-doubt to belief in your voice, transforming your drafts into beautiful stories.
I'm Sydney Kane. And I'm Lisa Petrov. And you're listening to Page Fright, where we talk about writing craft, the ins and out of the publishing industry, and our own personal journeys as authors. So let's dive in.
SPEAKER_02Hello. Hello. Hi. Um we uh as you can tell, we just pressed record. Um so yeah, um, I saw a really good movie. Ooh, what's that uh the other day. It was kind of unexpected. Um actually, so my boyfriend went with some friends, and it happened to be a night that I was double booked, booked with you. I he sprang the tickets on me like last minute, and I was like, Yeah, I could definitely go. And then I looked on my calendar the day later and I was like, oh no, it's our monthly writing group. Like, I can't go. So I ended up getting out of, going to see the movie. All my friends went, but when they came out, they said, you have to see it. It's so funny. It was so good. It was called Nirvana the Band, the show, the movie. What a name. Yeah, it's by a Canadian comedy duo, and they have been doing web shows for a long time. So they started out as Nirvana the Band for their kind of comedy song duo show. Uh, and then they started a web show, and as the preview kind of portion of the evening, like before they actually start the movie, the theater put on a bunch of their different episodes. It was really funny. And then they got an opportunity to make a movie, so that's why they kind of called it this like okay, Nirvana the band, the show, the movie. They just packed it all on. It was very whimsical and funny. I recommend it to everybody. It was short, and uh, it was just kind of a fun time travel movie.
SPEAKER_03So that I I'm definitely gonna have to see it. We've kind of had this thing going where we review movies and then we kind of get into our topic because we're both movie buffs. We both love TV and movies.
SPEAKER_02Uh how how are you with your deadline for writing for the cruise? Oh I want to make that cruise.
SPEAKER_03Um, yes. I still have not gone past 4,000 words because I was doing edits for Fly Away Kite, which I finally finished my last round of edits with that. I have a story.
SPEAKER_02I can't wait to see it in in total. I'm so glad.
SPEAKER_03I I forgot that you you read that. I'm like, you read that? Oh yeah, duh. You've read that.
SPEAKER_02I've read sections of it. I haven't read the whole thing, and I want to.
SPEAKER_03Well, you will. And I just finished edits on that. So uh Christina told me in the next couple weeks we'll finally be moving forward with that, and then I can just get that off my plate and transition. Because I still have a hard time moving on. If I have something that's coming up, like edits, then I can't get my brain to transition. And so I've just been waiting for these edits. Yeah. And guess what?
SPEAKER_02Well, this is this is an interesting writer question because you're you're juggling so many different projects. I wonder if there are other writers out there who might relate going, I can't actually switch my brain from one project to another. It's just too hard. How do you do it?
SPEAKER_03Well, I don't I'm not successful. I have to figure it out because it's really not gonna work for me because I have this book I have to finish that's due in December. And then let's say I get a book deal with this, with this, we're proposing three books, and then I have to start working on that right away. I don't know. I'm gonna have to figure it out because it's just not sustainable to do it the way I'm doing it right now.
SPEAKER_02I'm so interested to kind of reconvene on this question with you later once you do, and you can just give me the answers. Give you the trick. Yeah. You'll figure it out, don't worry. And then you'll know exactly what to do, and you'll tell everybody else, and we'll just follow instructions and be successful.
SPEAKER_03Well, I was listening to Victoria Aveyard and she was talking about this, and I was thinking, okay, yes, she's about to give me the hack, but then she said, I cannot transition from project to project. And I was like, oh no.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know how people do it. Again, maybe it's just take a bunch of cocaine like Stephen King did, and you'll be able to do it. Develop a debilitating addiction.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Um, and uh, you know, write the shining. You know, that's how they started the culture in medical schools and residency, is the guy who developed it. Yeah, the guy who developed it would get high on drugs, and he was that's that's how he was able to work like these 80-hour, like no sleep, 24-hour shifts, and he kind of built the residency around that. And the culture just has not shifted really. And that's why they expect these residents to work these crazy hours. Isn't that insane?
SPEAKER_02That is insane. It's so bad. It is, it's terrible. That's so bad. I hate that. I hate that I know that now. No. Incredibly interesting. Um well, uh, so I guess that brings us to our wait what question. You reminded me of it with uh this talk of residency and crazy hours and this, you know, making people need to be perfect for their job. So our question for wait what today is does your manuscript have to be perfect in order to submit it to an agent?
SPEAKER_03Uh-oh. This is a this is a hard one because it's tricky. I don't want to trigger all of our perfectionists out there, which is probably everyone that's listening. Yeah. But I want to say, yes, it does, but now we have to define what perfect really means. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02I think that there are a bunch of kind of parameters that agents know in their head. If you talk to agents, they might differ between a from agent to agent, but they they want you to meet their parameters, definitely. Uh, but your your manuscript is gonna change once it's accepted by them. So they're obviously not gonna be looking for absolute perfection. So I guess our answer is yes and no.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Basically, it needs to be no plot holes, a smooth manuscript, it needs to have had some type of edit developmentally, and then copy edits. You want there to be as little amount of work for your agent as possible. So they may want to rework little things like maybe your ending or a character arc or a little plot twist here and there, but they do not want to spend a lot of time working on your manuscript because they make money when they sell your manuscript. And some agents do act as editors and some do not. So if you're lucky to get one that does act as one, you'll get that additional few rounds of edits. Uh but they don't want to spend a bunch of time doing that because they're not going to make any money until that manuscript sells. So I would say you need to feel like your manuscript is perfect and there's nothing else you can do to it.
SPEAKER_02That sounds so painful because if you submit something perfect to someone and then they're like, you have to change the ending. You have to change this character arc. You're like, but it's already perfect. Like I submitted it to you not wanting to change anything, and now you do, you got, you're, you're, you're screwing me over.
SPEAKER_03My mental state, you're playing with it. Okay, then maybe the reframe it in your head where there's nothing else I can do to this manuscript. Like I have done everything I can do to this manuscript.
SPEAKER_01I don't know that sounds even worse.
SPEAKER_02I uh I have a lot of emotions if you guys see that around this.
SPEAKER_03What is triggering you about that statement?
SPEAKER_02I mean I'm just like, if you want it to be perfect, or if you want to be able to change it, then you should have a lower bar for how much you need to contribute to the manuscripts that you get. You know? So like I I'm assuming that there are agents out there who are just like, look, if I like the basic concept, if I like your writing style, and I think you have a spark, then I'm taking you on. You know, you'll I'm I'm here for a little bit of a fixer-upper where basically I'm just giving you guidelines for how like I know which publishing houses I would pitch this to, I know what they want, and these are the changes to your story that they would want to see before I present it to them. And they're mostly just kind of going to look for that initial spark of interest on their part when they read your work. Like that's and I feel like you could find that when you research agents, right? You can you can tell what kind of agent a person is going to be, like how they work with you, right? From doing some some research into what they say about themselves and what they're looking for on um on their work bio. I feel like can you like reach out to to other writers that might be on their roster and ask them about their agent and see if you should apply? Like, have you heard of people doing that?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I did that, but usually that's only after you've had an offer, then you can say, Can I talk to some of the other authors that you represent? And then they can get you in contact with them. But here's the thing that I realized is I used to think agents were looking for talent. You know, they were like, they were like actors, agents looking for the next big star. That's what I used to think it was like. And it's not like that. Really, what they're looking for is a good hook. Is it is it on trend right now? Like, can I sell this? Do I know who I can sell it to? Do you have a voice? And does this story like hit all its points? I feel like that's really what they're looking for. Not wow, your pros are so beautiful. You are a wonderful writer. I'm gonna take you on. Which which is what I used to think. And I was like, wow, one day someone's gonna hear my voice and love me personally. But I don't know if that's I don't know if that's like you're some sort of special little snowflake that they're like, finally I found you.
SPEAKER_02You're in the palm of my hand.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. It's like yeah, you plucked me out of the sky and you were like, beautiful.
SPEAKER_02My goodness, so different from all the other snowflakes. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, I I you are you that sounds right. I think you're right. Which is basically they're looking for the right product to push as quickly as possible, get it off their desk and get some money from it. And that makes sense to me. I think from the the from a writer's perspective, the answer then uh or the question to ask is how do you deal with that professionally when you're looking at the manuscript that you're developing and emotionally when you're reflecting on it later or preparing to write, you know, for the day. I think that one of the things that I would do is not seek perfection in what I'm writing, but think very pragmatically about what you just said. The list of things that they're looking for. Like is is are your pros clean? Is your pacing fun? Or is it gripping? Uh and this is just for a debut, right? Like I feel like you can as you develop, you know, a backlist, as you get things out there, as you develop relationships with agents in the industry or publishing houses and stuff, you can start to branch out a bit and kind of challenge yourself and explore creatively. But I feel like for a debut, you want to just hit certain points to get yourself in the door. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Exactly. So well, TBD, I mean, I guess we'll figure it out after I'm no longer a debut. What would I allow to do? Yeah, exactly. So is there is there any more work that you need to do for your debut? Oh yeah. I haven't gotten the first round of edits for that yet. I think those are coming in April. So I'm trying to tell myself, pivot. I'm like Ross from Friends, pivot on to your deadline piece and just forget about those edits. Just get this done. So I have for all the listeners out there, what what do you expect to get?
SPEAKER_02What does it look like for your first edits?
SPEAKER_03What have you been told you're going to receive? My understanding is I will get inline edits where it'll be a line-level edit where they'll t tell me about sentences or paragraphs or little things with inlines, and then a separate editorial letter, which is overarching themes, character arcs, like the kind of more macro view rather than the micro view of my manuscript and things that they want changed. From what I understand, there's not a bunch story-wise they want to change. Um, so we'll see there. I know they want to make the ending a little more closed than open, because at this point there's not going to be a sequel. Although my secret hope, and don't tell anyone, is that it'll do really well. And then they'll say, Okay, you can write the sequel. Because I already have the sequel outlined and ready to go. I have like the whole story planned out. So I'm really, really hoping this book does well.
SPEAKER_02And then Is it a sequel with the same main characters, or is it a sequel with a a new couple or something like that?
SPEAKER_03It's the same couple, but a totally different so they still have problems. Yes, but in a different way. Oh excellent. It'll be a totally different story. And I'm really hoping that people will be like, Where's the sequel? And I'll be like, I guess I gotta write it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's in the works. Yeah, exactly. That's great. I love that. Um, that's one of my favorite kind of things when you're writing a book, how you just automatically start thinking of the story after the book, and and you're like, Oh, I have I have more plot to go. It's just fun to to fiddle with it in your head. Whether you're ever gonna write it or not.
SPEAKER_03Totally.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, should we move on to our main act?
SPEAKER_02Yes. I think we have a really interesting question today. Can you remind me what it is? Yes.
SPEAKER_03So is it normal to hate your own work to be writing and love it one day and then one the next day say, you know what? I'm gonna scrap it. I hate the whole thing. I'm a terrible writer. This sucks.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Like that feeling when you go from reading a book off your bookshelf and you're like, this is a book. And then you go and read your own writing, and you're like, How could I ever think that this matched any sort of, you know this is an elementary school style essay? Yes. Just something's wrong with this person. Yes I've had the effect. Tell me if you've ever had this, where you read your own writing and it it sounds like, you know, when you listen to your own voice for the first time on an voicemail recording on your phone, and you're just like, I sound like that? Yes. Yes. What happened?
SPEAKER_03Yes. That happens to me all the time. I I get cringed. I'm like, why did I ever think this was good? And I'll just close it and be done with it. But then what's so funny is I'll pick it up like a month later and read it. And I'm like, it's not so bad. Why did I hate it so much?
SPEAKER_02Isn't that strange? Yes, yes. I I've had that. It's kind of like the distance actually helps you. Almost like you give it the forgiveness that you would another writer. Uh and it's like, it's not even necessarily forgiveness with other writers, it's just kind of a an automatic faith that like, oh, they meant to write this, and and this is how you write. Yes. This is how the story is and should be. This is how you structure a sentence. And it's like, it can be the weirdest, most messed up sentence. And you're just like, oh, yep.
SPEAKER_03So creative. So creative.
SPEAKER_02Yes, so creative.
unknownYes.
SPEAKER_02That's exactly how I feel about other writers. I'm like, wow, you're inspired. And I see myself like do something, and I'm just like, what the hell were you thinking?
SPEAKER_03What I'll what I'll do a lot when I read my work, I'll be like, wow, this is so staccato in a bad way. You need to be more musical and lyrical. And so I'll hate my pacing a lot. I'll get really mad at my staccato beats. But then interesting. Later on I'll like it by the end.
SPEAKER_02That's so funny. Cause like I I read your writing in our um writing group, and I never get the feeling of this is so staccato. You don't? No. I read it, it's punchy, I and I just roll into the next sentence. Well, that's good to know. I think my problem though is I fiddle with sentences so much that like I will I'll go back over a sentence, but every time I've I've reread it, I have changed a word already. That's my perfectionism. That's why it takes me so long. I rarely rewrite my stuff.
SPEAKER_03Good for you. Well, I don't know if that's good. I I'm kind of like a all right, it's out there now. That's what it is.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, my my process is different. It's basically when I read God and sorry. I write and I read my stuff out loud in public. It's bad. Like I I sound like a crazy person. Like I'll be I'll be writing and then I'll go over everything again. And I just mumble read all the dialogue, and it's like the most embarrassing, dramatic scenes, and I'm just like saying it out loud, like da-da-da-da-da-da-da.
SPEAKER_03Like like right next to someone else in the cafe next to me. I wish I could sit next to you in a cafe. Do you say it with like the appropriate dialogue tags? Like if they whisper, do you whisper it, or if they growl, you growl it? Well, I I don't think I've ever growled in public, but um like how dare you.
SPEAKER_02Um, I mean, uh, you know what? I'm one of these days I'll probably catch myself doing that. Yes. But anyway, I say this because uh that's how I check the rhythm of my sentences. I I want to be able to say them easily out loud. And if I can say them easily out loud, then I feel like a reader, when they say it in their head, they're not gonna trip over the words. Yeah. Um not every reader reads in their head as slowly as I do. I think a lot of people, like I hear a voice in my head. Me too. That is like reading aloud to me. I read very slowly. Um, that's how I do it. I I don't think everybody does this though, because a lot of people are way faster readers than me. But like I will trip over sentences in my own head. Is the voice your voice or somebody else? Oh, it doesn't have like a cadence or anything like that. But it it's just like I'm it's my thinking voice. So Okay, I have the same thing. Yeah, but it will trip over sentences. I'll have to reread things. I'll feel like, oh, it read that sentence wrong. I need to reread it. I know. I'm sharing weird things about myself.
SPEAKER_03No, I love it. I love it.
SPEAKER_02Uh but it is crucial for me to write something that feels like it's easy to say aloud.
SPEAKER_03So that's actually a really good hack. And actually, that's a good way to stop your dialogue from sounding stilted is to read it out loud, like it's real dialogue. Yeah. So I think that's a great I I should do that. I read it back to myself, but I never do it out loud. I'm gonna try it and see how it sounds. Yeah. It's fun. I was thinking about this topic while I was getting dressed today. Mm-hmm. Thinking about why is it that we pursue something that we love, but then we're so harsh on it? Why do we hate it at different times? Like, why is it so emotional? And I think writers have to write to fulfill some kind of, first of all, need, but also it's how we work through a lot of things, even if our stories are totally not at all what we think related to our emotions or our traumas or thoughts or feelings or whatever, I always feel like we're trying to understand the world and the people around us. And so sometimes ugly feelings come up with that. And so I wonder if during those times when you hate a specific scene or you hate your writing, if you're having some kind of emotional reaction or emotional breakthrough that you're not realizing and it's making you have negative feelings towards your work.
SPEAKER_02I think that that's absolutely what's going on for a lot of people. I think that for for a lot of writers that encounter this feeling, they just have a deep-seated sense that they don't belong as a writer. And I think that they're constantly worried that with the next word that they read, they're going to encounter some sort of proof that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing. If the next word feels wrong, then that is the universe telling you that you shouldn't put pen to paper. And yeah.
SPEAKER_03Or or if you're working through like a very emotional scene and or even not emotional, and somehow it's triggering some kind of feeling or memory or emotion you have towards that specific topic, it probably will bring up ugly feelings with that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, like a sense of authenticity. Like, is are you approaching this topic uh in a way that feels right to you and you have to get the prose right, you have to get the writing right in order for it to feel like you address this topic adequately.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, or it's you actually doing like process, like like uh psychodynamic therapy where you're actually like working through an issue that you have, and it's coming out in like the story way. Because you can How like you work on like the boy who uh cried wolf that's teaching a lesson. It's like a story about like as a moral, it's a moral tale. Yeah, exactly. I feel like sometimes our books are like that too, but it's working through our own issues in like a very different, separated, distanced way.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so so like your dislike of your own writing is almost incidental to some other feeling that you're letting get in the way. Exactly. Interesting. Interesting. I mean, I can definitely see it. I think a lot of people experience that kind of um reactionariness in their daily life. True. I mean, you hear you hear about, you know, marital arguments, and it's just like, okay, you know, like you always clink your silverware against your plate, like when you eat, and it's aggravating me. I'm so pissed. Uh, but it the fight isn't about clinking the silverware. Exactly. The fight is perfect.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. That's actually a funny thing. It's actually a saying uh for therapists when you do couples therapy, because uh it's it's not about the dishes. Because they're usually always fighting about doing the dishes. It's never about the dishes.
SPEAKER_02Look, I'll tell you though, sometimes it's about the goddamn dishes. Dude, it's about the someone needs to do the fucking dishes. I'm sorry. Okay. In my relationship, it's pretty much me. Um someone needs to do them. Um, anyway.
SPEAKER_03In my relationship, it's usually not me. I'm usually because it usually goes to who's the cleanlier one, the one who can tolerate mess the least. And I can tolerate, I'm I'm very much living in my head. Exactly. I'm living in my head. I'm not even seeing the dishes, I'm not seeing the mess on the floor. Whereas my husband is like, How can you go this long without doing the dishes? Like, I've been waiting for you to do the dishes and they're still not done. Gorgeous, amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yes, so relatable. Um, well, it's funny. So, did you watch Friends at all? Oh, yeah, multiple times. So I always like the the worst position to be in is when you're both kind of sloppy people, but you're the slightly less sloppy one. Oh, that would be bad. And so basically, you by default, even though you're a sloppy person, become the monica in the relationship who's just like the lamp needs to be turned this way, and you didn't take care of the pillows, and like she sounds outrageous on the show. You're you're just like, oh my God, you're crazy. Like, why are you trying to be so clean? Uh-huh. And but like you're a slob. So like you don't even relate to yourself anymore.
SPEAKER_03You're like, why am I so mad? I can think of nothing worse than losing my slobbiness because my partner has forced me to change who I am at my core.
SPEAKER_02Okay, we are officially off topic. Um, I have my own theory about I I I really like yours. I I have kind of a separate avenue to go down to why I think that we hate our own writing. I think of it as very similar to people that struggle with their self-image. So let's say you're, and a lot of people struggle with their self-image. It's just like you struggle with how you look, you struggle with beauty standards, you struggle with, you know, you're not literally struggling with your weight, you're struggling with liking yourself at whatever weight you are, or with the face that you have. Like maybe you struggle with like wanting plastic surgery or something like that. Where you look at other people and you're like, they look fine. Right. They look beautiful. Yeah. Like you can tell anyone of your friends, you're like, you don't need to change anything about yourself. And you authentically mean it. You're like, you're gorgeous. There's not there's nothing you should do. But you look at yourself and you have a whole list of things that you want to change about yourself. Right. And it's this interesting relationship that we have with ourselves where we're so willing to criticize what we already have when in any other situation we wouldn't, you know? So I think that that I think that that can be related to how we feel about our own writing and how we think about uh how we think about it when we finally sit down with it. We're just too close to it. I love it.
SPEAKER_03It's it's like instead of body dysmorphia, it's writing dysmorphia. Yeah. Oh, that's a good let's writing dysmorphia.
SPEAKER_02TM writing dysmorphia. I think a lot of people have it. And I think that meeting you where you were saying that you really just don't look back. You're like, well, it's out there. I think that that is something that people with writing dysmorphia need to, and I don't really like labels. Personally, I think people get too attached to the labels that they give themselves. But if you are encountering this kind of issue, you should just let it go. Like you really should just put more stuff out there. Don't don't look back, and you will move yourself forward way faster than you would have otherwise, just sitting and hating the sound of your own writing for really no reason.
SPEAKER_03I think what I've learned is that the sentence doesn't really matter. And this is this is gonna kill you as a literary writer, but this is how I think of it. The sentence doesn't matter, the story matters. So am I getting my point across? It doesn't matter in the beginning, it doesn't matter how I say it. So if I am moving the story along and it's getting the point across that I'm trying to make, yeah, it's good enough. And then when I go back and I reread it before I send it with my one read through before I send it to my agent, I will do, I will pretty it up a bit. But I don't spend time thinking like, how does this sentence sounds? How does this word sound? How does that sound? Because the reader that's reading my work anyway is not looking for pretty prose. They're looking for emotional impact and a good story.
SPEAKER_02You know, it's so funny that you say that. There are some readers that are looking for interesting, intricate prose. I wouldn't say that that's particularly my writing, uh, or I'm not aiming to impress that sort of reader. I think that what I'm trying to do is search for a kind of dynamism with each sentence where I'm where I'm trying to say with with each each sentence. I'm trying to say multiple things at the same time. I'm trying to convey multiple pieces of information because my big goal is to foster faith within the reader that yes, this this part might you might not relate to every part of the story or this part that you're particularly reading. But you have faith that it's going to lead somewhere important, that is gonna be worthwhile. And sometimes you can't put your finger on why you feel that way. You know, it's not clear in the writing, but the the writer has done a good enough job to to make you go like, I'm gonna turn this page. That page was boring, but this next page, I'm there. I know something's gonna happen. That is some hammer is gonna fall.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I do struggle with that. I don't want maybe that's why I'm more of a skeleton writer, is because I hate to be bored. And I do not like sentences that don't need to be there. So every sentence that I write needs to be there. So I'm gonna say it to you as quickly as possible, and I'm not going to elaborate. I'm just gonna say it. There it is, boom, we're moving on. And I'm probably not gonna repeat it.
SPEAKER_02I mean, great. That's how I feel when I'm reading your writing where I'm like, I already got all the information. I'm like, I feel like I'm neck deep in your story, like two pages in. I mean, you you have so you've written 4,000 words of this current manuscript that you're writing. And I'm like, oh, I already got everything I need. Like you're worried about writing too many, like it being too long. You're like, I have this cap of words that I can do. What was it, 70K? 75, 75. You're like, I have this cap. I'm worried that I'm gonna go over. And I'm like, how? Like, like, there's so much information already, and you're only 4,000 words in.
SPEAKER_03I always think that. I always think, how am I gonna get all this information out? But then by 65k, I'm like, oh yeah, we we are landing folks. It's like fasten your seat belts. We will be landing soon. Like I'm I'm ready. But I have a very good, my it's like I have a good pace. It's weird. I don't really need to plot very intricately because it almost has like a song, like you know when the chorus is coming, and then you know the bridge, and then you know that's coming to an end. That's kind of how it is for me with my books. They always end at the exact same length. Yeah. Lucky. Lucky bitch. It's amazing. Oh my god. Yeah, but you're I but but that's so funny because I'm very jealous of people who can write like you. You're a very beautiful writer. And I think people are gonna be reading your I think that you're wrong about people not reading your book for the prose, because I think they will. That's just the kind of writer you are.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you so much. That's really nice of you to say. Well, so if if we were to give listeners one piece of a practical advice for gaining faith in their own writing, getting over their writer's dysmorphia, um, what would it be? What would what piece of advice would you give to to someone like right in this moment, they they are about to, they're gonna turn off this episode, they're gonna they're gonna end it, and they're gonna start writing for the day, they're gonna reread yesterday's work, they're gonna see it, and they go, ugh. What what would you what would you say to that person?
SPEAKER_03Okay. It may look like an ugly duckling right now, but if you just let it grow and you keep on going, it eventually will turn into a swan. And it's gonna be beautiful by the end. You've created something that does not exist, so just keep going, trust the process, and by the end your story will be beautiful.
SPEAKER_02It's basically the way you look at it, the way you read it, feel the hatred, let the loathing wash over you, and then leave it alone. Don't touch it, just move on, especially if this is your zero draft, especially if this is just you getting it out there. Just go check. I hated my own writing from yesterday, I got it. And w write something else. Keep writing forward. Make a note that you're like, actually, I want the character to do this, I want to change the scene. Have it just skeletal bullet point, like this is what you want to change in future. And then don't read it again until you're done with the manuscript. I like I I would I would say that I did that with um it was the only way that I could finish the first draft of this manuscript. I wrote the beginning, I didn't think it was very good, but I didn't look at it again until I finished the whole thing. And I looked at it again. I thought there can be some changes, but it's not as bad as I thought it was. I felt better about myself and I moved on. So that's my that's my practical advice. It's the only thing that's ever helped me with it. And you know, don't believe that bad voice in your head. It's the same voice that doesn't make sense when it tells you that you're ugly and all your friends are pretty. Because it's not true. Exactly. You know? Yeah, like that's great advice. You look you look just as wonderful as all the people that you pay compliments to. You're just as talented as all the people that you pay compliments to. I like that's that's what I honestly believe.
SPEAKER_03Love it. Well, good luck, everyone out there.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Beating is writing dysmorphia.
SPEAKER_02Yes. I do like that term.
SPEAKER_03All right, let's label it. Are you do you have writing dysmorphia? Uh yes, I definitely do.
SPEAKER_02I saw a psychiatrist for it.
SPEAKER_03I was just trying to get you to say, no, I hate labels, but you didn't. Oh, oh, okay. Just ask me again. Do you have writing dysmorphia? No, I hate labels.
SPEAKER_02That was good. Um, so are you uh are you ready to throw some tomatoes? I have a good one today.
SPEAKER_01Me too. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm I'm excited for it. Um let me pull it up for myself. Mine's a little bit long, but it's worth it. Okay. Uh mine's a little bit long too, but it's also worth it.
SPEAKER_03So why don't you go first? I'm excited to hear yours. Mine is for Outlander, book one. Ooh, okay. And she's, you know, one of the best. Okay. Yeah. Anyone's in a channel.
SPEAKER_02She's friends with George R. Martin. That's what I thought. That makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Because that's two of the best. You know? Those are the type of people that give you writing dysmorphia. Okay, one star review. Oi Ve. I do not read romance novels for precisely the reasons I ended up hating this book. This summer I was determined to find a good book, romantic book, that's not YA and not trashy. Unfortunately, those books don't exist anymore, and I was forced into the romance novel genre. I tried Outlander because of all the wonderful reviews it had, but honestly, in the end, it's just your typical overhyped relationship that is supposed to be romantic, but to me seems abusive and sexist. So let's start with the rapes. Good God. I know it's historical fiction and women got raped a lot back then, but this protagonist almost gets raped one million times, an exaggeration, of course, and nearly every time she s was saved by some big Scottish man, usually Jamie. Taking out the rape saves. She's still saved and she's still saved another hundred times for being stupid, another exaggeration, or getting in one terrible situation or another. Claire is constantly getting herself and everyone around her in trouble, and all the hot, sexy Scottish men have to constantly bail her out. What a strong heroine. Then there's this I have so many objections. She doesn't. I know. Then there's the sex scenes. Don't even get me started. You are talking historical fiction here, right? And somehow I'm supposed to believe that Jamie's a virgin when they get married? With all the rape flying around, the women is property talk. Do you honestly think a man who's as good looking as Jamie at his age in the Highlands is going to be a virgin? And naturally, Claire just orgasms but spelled organisms on the third round without Jamie knowing anything about the female body. Or even doing anything with it, really. And why didn't Claire teach him where to touch and what to do again? By the way, ladies, I don't know if you know this or not, but according to Claire, a woman doesn't orgasm every time. It takes a very good lover to take a woman to such a place. But lucky for Claire, it only took Jamie three times to perfect it. And last but not least, there's the part where Jamie beats her. Wonderful. If you're going to justify this with its historical statement, can we please go back to the fact that we're supposed to believe Jamie's a virgin? This book wants so badly to have a strong feminist female lead in order to fit in with the modern times, but then reverts back to very anti-feminist plays with very disrespectful men, and the strong female lead is powerless and pointless. All in all, it's a romance novel. Most of them are pretty sexist and sexually unrealistic. So if you're already reading them and like them, then I'm sure you'll like this one. If you're like me and think, wow, romance novels are ridiculous and have horrible messages in them for women everywhere, you will hate this as I did.
SPEAKER_02Why did you read it? Uh yeah, I I I have I have something to say, but I want to hear your thoughts first. You picked it for a reason.
SPEAKER_03What inspired you? I think our video on Hillary Lane, yeah, that made me think, okay, this person was very triggered by the sex. Yes. And all the negativity around it was about the sex. And I just was triggered once again by this person being triggered.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I always uh I always like it when people review books in genres that they admit that they don't like in general. I'm like, why did you review it? That's the thing I don't understand. It's like I understand trying to read a book in a genre that you don't particularly like. Great. And I understand not liking that book. But I don't get reviewing it then and then admitting that you have something against the genre in general. You know? Yeah. And that's just I'm just like, then you came in biased and your biases were confirmed. Yeah. What what am I supposed to get from this review? Why am I supposed to believe your assessment of this book? Exactly. Like you said that you already like it's like, yeah, I read this mystery book, but I hate solving mysteries. And this book incidentally sucked. And I'm like, oh, okay, so is this a good mystery or a bad mystery then?
SPEAKER_03I can't tell because you hate all of them. Yeah, it's like a wine drinker. I love wine. And if someone hates wine and then they take a drink of wine, they're like, this is disgusting. I'm like, well, your opinion I can't trust because you don't know how good wine is, you know? Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, I think that's it's also just there is a I I want to respect readers, like different readers' desires. She this person, she or he, is a is an audience for a different type of book. They they they're looking for a different type of heroine, they're looking for a different type of historical representation, and there's something about romance that that I think this is going back to romances and happy ending uh conversations. There is something that is uh I think intrinsic in romance genre writing that is a little bit removed from reality because you are trying to create this feeling of, you know, these people are meant to be. This is a relationship that is like written in by the freaking stars. It is fairy tale-like in a certain sense. And that's not just something that is important for the ending, that is something that is important for the beginning and the middle. And I think that there are a lot of readers, like she she or he commented on the like lack of realism in certain parts, uh, where it's like this is supposed to be a historical novel, but it's you know, there are some parts that are just unbelievable, specifically like the woman orgasming in the sex, you know, from a virgin lover. From penetration only. Yes. So but the thing is that if you're reading romance, then you're kind you're looking for fairy tale sex. You're looking for a suspension of disbelief. And if you're not ready to give that to the book, then you're just not the the j the the genre's audience. Uh that's something that I don't think is a bad it's something that people think is bad about romance, but I just think it's intrinsic to the genre because it's something that the audience is looking for. They're looking for a release vowel, an escapism. And there are tons of other genres that have escapism in them, and we give them the credence, we give them the the ability to go in that way. We don't give that to romance as easily. We're like, why isn't the sex unbelievably real? And I'm just like, you don't want it to be. I know. Like why what like do you want like I I don't know, do you want your pornography to be like devastatingly real and awkward? Like in parts? Like, should all of it be the worst sex that you've ever had in order to feel authentic? I'm sure there's an audience for that. I mean, it's interesting because like one of the most popular genres is like um the like search terms and stuff like that for pornography is uh what is it? Uh amateur. Amateur pornography. Because people do want to have this sense of realism uh when when they watch it, but like you know that it's not true. Like there is some sort of unrealism that is still happening. There is editing. This is a particular instance of these people who are very likely already professionals on their own. They're just doing certain angles and using certain equipment that make it seem more, you know, real. Um, it's not like 80s pornography where it's all in a set, you know. Um But so like I can understand trying to like push the envelope in the writing to make it feel more realistic, but but at base, you still want if you're a female reader, you want the woman to be to orgasm, right? That's that's part of the reason you're reading the scene. That's true.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I don't know. I think I'm getting too real.
SPEAKER_03I don't know. I I would love to have the option to test it out. See what it's like to read a very realistic book.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, we can um we can switch to my uh book then. You could see. I I think that I think you will find the review interesting. For this one. It's in a different vein, but it's um it's a different type of book. It's uh a review of blindness by Jose Saramago, and it's not talking about the sex, but it's talking about something else that the the reader accuses him of not being realistic about. So I'll read it.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_02Um okay, so the reviewer uh gave it two stars, uh, give blindness two stars, uh, and they called it tedious and leaves too much unanswered and much too much said. So it says, a book full of characters in which no one has a name, in parentheses, because, quote, the blind don't need names. Um, funny, every person I know who is blind has one. No attention to standard rules of punctuation are followed. Yes, yes, I get it. You're edgy and experimental, and it helps make the reader feel as helplessly confused without the common visual indicators of who is speaking, or even that someone is speaking. And most head-bangingly frustrating was the lack of explanation for the whole central incident. Uh, and the whole central incident, uh, Sydney, uh, and for our readers, if if you haven't read the book, is that the world suddenly goes blind. It's like a uh epidemic of blindness, and the book follows characters that have been quarantined for blindness because they don't know if the blindness uh is um contagious, uh spreadable. Contagious. Uh okay, so plus the entire condescending way blindness was treated just made me queasy. Basically, becoming blind made all of the central characters completely helpless, with little development of any type of independence or self-sufficiency over the course of the novel. At its base, this is dystopian fiction. What happens when all of the normal safeguards of a modern society fall apart without warning? As may be expected, it's not pretty. In fact, a lot of time is spent on exactly how disgusting the situation becomes. The connection between sight and ability to regulate one's bowels still baffles me, but so much time is spent on it that must be a side effect of this particular affliction. Honestly, what bothered me the most is that this could have been a fabulous novel. The concept of sudden contagious blindness is unique and ripe with potential, however, what it actually produced was nothing I'd have ever forgively envisioned. Anyway, so I read this review. I thought it was really, really interesting because they're basically accusing the writer of like not characterizing blindness correctly, like being offensive to uh people who are blind. And I thought it was really interesting. I read this book in high school and that it never occurred to me while I was reading it. Um and I thought it was funny because I was just like, I don't think at any point Jose Saramago was saying if you're blind, you lose basic abilities like to navigate life. Because blind people have like great alternative ways to get through life. They're like they're they're regular people uh who you know you use just different methods to do basic things and basic tasks and like it it works. They're good at what they do, they're confident, obviously. But the thing that he's commenting on is like the weird things that can happen when people are not taken care of, not trained and shunned and pushed aside, and how society can mistreat blind people, how how uh even if you are one of the blind interacting with other people who are blind and afflicted with the sudden condition, uh, how norms can dissolve. And it's a really interesting book. Uh, it's really beautifully written. And I thought it was really interesting how it's just kind of like it was misinterpreted by by the Spear. I think that they misinterpreted it as somehow something that was meant to undermine the abilities of people who are blind. And I just think it's inaccurate. So I thought it was an interesting kind of it's a classic book. A lot of people really respect it. Uh it's it's very inspiring and interesting and original. Um, and I don't know, I wanted to show it to everybody out there who might be like coming up with an interesting original story and just like just write it like someone's gonna hate it and they're going to accuse you of being somehow, you know, offensive or mean or thoughtless, and it's like it's okay, but it's going to happen, and you your work will stand on its own. That's what I think.
SPEAKER_03That's that's great advice. I think just existing and having your own way of thinking is gonna be offensive to people.
SPEAKER_02I think so too. Yes, because you're you're you you are asserting yourself into the world. You are going to be saying your opinions as they are, and people are going to want to react to them positively and negatively, and it's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You are you're not responsible for every reader's pain reaction to your work. That's what I think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. If you're an author, you're a disruptor. You're disrupting something when you distribute your books because they impact so many things like the way we think, the way we see the world. And so that's gonna rub people the wrong way. And they may hate you, but maybe they'll eventually grow to see things your way. I don't know. Maybe you'll change your mind. Yes.
SPEAKER_02It's like you're not there to please the audience, you're there to affect the audience. You're there to impact them. And sometimes that might be a negative interaction.
SPEAKER_01Definitely.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So we have a reader question this week. Oh, yes. Let's hear it. Um, let me pull it up. I thought that this was an interesting one. Uh, it's from Rebecca. She said, I have a big reveal scene coming up in a story I'm writing, and I wanted to pack a punch. How can I make sure I do that? I was thinking about this a lot today.
SPEAKER_03And the reveal is impactful when it's not about the reveal itself. That is just the final piece of something that's already been building.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03So if you want your reveal to be the most impactful, there needs to be multiple opportunities for your reader to guess the reveal reasonably. Yes. There needs to be many hints and breadcrumbs leading them to this chocolate sculpture.
SPEAKER_02So you should put like a little uh chocolate kiss there, a little chocolate kiss there, and they're just when they find out the reveal, they can look back and they're just like, Oh, I see all the little, all the little breadcrumbs. Oh, I love that.
SPEAKER_03Like when you're when you're reading and you see a little hint, like uh just the tiniest little sentence, the tiniest little clue. That is something so fun that I love to do in my books is leave little clues, little hints, little things that are said. And then when you go back and read, you're like, oh what? So yes, I agree. I think in the emphasis needs to not be on the reveal. It needs to be on what gets you to the reveal. Yeah. And that's the key.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I think that if you are trying to pack a punch in that scene, you need to look everywhere around that scene to see where you can make the reveal as stark as possible. So if the reveal is related to some other plot point that you have, you want to make sure that you emphasize that plot point in like when it came up in the past. Every time that maybe an object that's related to this reveal comes up, you want to make sure that the reader remembers it. You want to, you want to make sure that the reader feels the shift into this new paradigm. There was a before this moment and an after this moment. And they have the reader has to really thoroughly picture what life was like before and that everything has changed now. That's when I think you have like real punch. Um and emotional investment. Yes, I agree. Yeah, emotional investment uh through clarity, you know? Like if if the reader wasn't clear on how they should feel about something, then they're not as invested in it um as they need to be. So making sure that you as the writer know exactly what they're they need to be focusing on, that's how you can kind of tighten the the screws on that scene to make sure that you're getting your readers to feel the way you want them to feel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like think about if you're reading a book and it opens up with page one with at a funeral and this character's dead. But then think about if that same scene was on like chapter 25, how would you feel differently? And I think and what is different about it being on chapter one and chapter 25, and really analyze that. And I think that should be your north star to help you get to to figure out how to make it the most impactful emotionally anyway.
SPEAKER_02I completely agree. You know, I could say so many other things about this. I think it's a a really interesting question and topic, but uh I have uh I have another question for you. Okay, let's hear it. Um I'm in need of a good editor. How do I go about finding one?
SPEAKER_03Oh, well, let me get out my pen and paper because I have a long list of advice for you. But I knew you would. I'm gonna share it with you next week. No on another episode of Page Fright.
SPEAKER_02Okay, don't forget to like and subscribe, people. I don't say this enough. Like and subscribe.
SPEAKER_03Yes, like and subscribe, people.
SPEAKER_02And we will see you next week on another episode of PageFright.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for the You just listened to Page Fright. Don't forget to like and subscribe and write to us at pagefrightcontact at gmail.com.
